Tuesday, January 14, 2014

Embarcadero's Upgrade Policy is Deceiving

I am so frustrated and angry with Embarcadero right now. You have no idea how angry I am. Embarcadero's upgrade pricing policy is deceiving.


I upgraded to XE4 Enterprise from D2010 Professional in May of 2013. I blogged about my decision on May 19, 2013. (You can read about it here)


My upgrade decision was mostly made based on Embarcadero stating that the upgrade to XE4 is only valid for users of D2010 and higher. I did not want to miss out on an opportunity. It only stood to reason that when XE5 came out Embarcadero would only allow upgrade pricing from XE and higher.


Like all of you, I received all the year end marketing emails from Embarcadero. Needless to say, I did not take advantage of these year end offers.


I continued to receive upgrade notifications from Embarcadero. So, I decided to follow the embedded links within the email and now I discover that Embarcadero is allowing upgrades to XE5 to users of D2009 and higher.


THIS IS AN OUTRAGE


If I had waited a few short months I could have spent my upgrade money and received XE5. Now, I have XE4 Enterprise and it's going to cost me another 1,500 dollars to upgrade to XE5. This has got me so angry I don't know what to do. (I'm one pissed off Marine)


I'm a die-hard Delphi fanatic like most of you are. I have a love/hate relationship with Delphi mainly because it takes so dang long to learn how to do something in Delphi and after you figure out how to do it you say to yourself... "It shouldn't have taken that long."


I'm starting to really resent Embarcadero for what I consider to be deceptive marketing and upgrade policies.


I am not a happy camper right now.


Gunny Mike

28 comments:

  1. The upgrade policy isn't trying to be deceiving. Just trying to offer the best deal we can at the given time.

    It reminds me of one time they offered some last minute tickets to Borcon on eBay as a promotion (eBay was a sponsor). I was able to get my ticket at a better price so I was able to afford to go. Some people were really upset because they purchased their ticket earlier. Again, they weren't trying to deceive or take advantage of anyone.

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    1. This is not a one-time shot. This is a trend by EMBT. They play hard-ball with versions limitations up front and then change after the deadline. It's a moving target Jim.

      It sounds like sales weren't what EMBT expected so they widened the net. I'm pissed and it's going to take some time before I get over it. I truly love Delphi... I'm just very angry with EMBT right now.

      Truth be told if you and I were to trade positions you'd feel the same way.

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    2. Give it to them Michael! EMBT has spiraled Delphi down the toilet. For what its worth, Delphi XE-5 is not all that what it is cracked up to be. Creating mobile Apps with Delphi SUX!

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  2. You could be missing the point here Jim: How much would Embarcadero lose if upgrades included some form of SA? Most vendors offer such a thing. With EMBT tools, you could purchase today and be downgraded to obsolescence a day later when XEn+1 is released. And this is important as there are many bugs and XEn-1 and previous versions are neither maintained nor their inherited bugs ever fixed.

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    1. Good Point! when a new version comes out all bugs in current versions are just forgotten about, and when people query about bug fixes the standard reply is "Upgrade to the latest version"

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  3. Unfortunately not everyone wants SA. It would be so much easier if everyone did though.

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    1. We only upgrade every 4 or 5 years so please no, there are many hidden cost in every delphi update (in our case large thirdparty cost, upgrading and testing etc etc.). And since delphi versions have so many unwelcome suprises (read buggy) s we rather stay at a stable version

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    2. What is SA? Please post a link that I can research.

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    3. SA is Software Assurance. It's what Embarcadero calls their software subscription.

      There are some details here:
      http://support.embarcadero.com/annual

      Technically, it's "Support & Maintenance", but using the initials S&M might raise eyebrows.

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    4. Thanks Bruce. So, me being the "litteral" type wouldn't find "software assurance" (SA) because it's really called something else. :-)

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  4. SA is cheaper if you upgrade at least once every two years, to me that SA is now a no-brainer.

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  5. I do not think you can call it deceive. I believe that, in fact, this is good news for anyone who uses the Embarcadero development tools like Delphi and C + + Builder. It's a chance for more professionals and companies can do update their older versions to the current version XE5. I thought that the update policy is actually better than before.

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  6. XE5 came out within 6 months of my purchasing XE4. And I just felt that the upgrade pricing was too much for me to put down some money so soon after. I asked if there was the possibility of a special price for people who buy so close to the new version coming out but there wasn't. RIght now, I feel like I will not bother with any XE5 offer. I will just wait for XE6. Am I being forced to get on SA?

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  7. So, basically you took advantage of a special offer, so they have no right to ever offer another one under any conditions just so you can feel like you got the best possible deal?

    Man, I can't imagine how you react to grocery shopping.

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    1. @Xepol - You are missing the point. I did not take advantage of a special offer. I took advantage of the standard upgrade eligibility requirement.

      Your analogy of grocery shopping is totally inaccurate.

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  8. You need the SA. Anything else does not make sense. That's SA Ultra. Program by EMB.

    Do you remember your first comment on another blog about the way you experienced the Delphi community today in comparison to the past. It think you are now reached the point where most of us went beyond a long time ago...

    Enjoy the walk in the valley of doubt where at the end of the path resignation is the option left. In a sense - I pay you SA and don't have to think of installing another copy of a newer Delphi for a long while. You cannot even escape that way.

    You must install and have a look on the new features otherwise you don't get the additional stuff promised when you renew SA. Certain kind psycho terror. Sects/cults brainwash people that way. They never leave you alone. There is always someone who talks to you ... (saw that in a video about mind-control MK Ultra). One day you start believing when a black cat crosses the street - it's the devil.

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  9. Michael I can understand how you feel, but I do not think there was any malicious intent. On the other hand, I do think that marketing has been Delphi's worst problem for years, and that continues apace under new ownership. The recent shift to more frequent releases and higher prices, as well as limitations on how the Pro version may be used all strike me as ill-advised. (Actually, I censored a more meaningful description.) Things have reached the point where, unless like some of us you upgrade only when it is necessary, buying without paying 50% more for SA is foolish. If you buy with SA, then you basically have decided you will upgrade at each new release, and get the SA price, which is much less.

    This strategy is designed to push into a subscription, wherein we pay each year, whether or not we are delighted with the new features. Being still very focused on Win32 desktop apps, all the new features are of little value to me, and all the grandfathered defects are increasingly annoying. But my view is not that of EMBT management, and they are not interested in my position.

    The desktop PC market is flat; the mobile market is growing. Hence, EMBT is looking to the growth market for the increased revenues they desire. I wish them good luck with that, but it leaves me on XE.

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    1. @Bill, thanks for your level headed response. I normally hold my tongue when it comes to stuff like this. However, this time I didn't. I suppose if my sales were through the roof I wouldn't be so angry but my sales have slowed way down. This makes me take a hard look at expenditures. It's just very frustrating to due your due diligence based on the "marketing landscape" make a buying decision to have the entire "marketing landscape" change five months later.

      I love Delphi and always will. Thank you for shining a light on the real issue with EMBT... the Marketing Department.

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    3. SA pays for both Delphi Enterprise and the Professional version. There was no malicious attempt. The IDE improved for example since XE. There is always something that improved. You never really know what improved. One piece of information does come after over a period of 6 months and the story starts again.

      It's dependent on what you do. If you can make use of MORMot for example, Delphi is a good option and combined with a new working Delphi a pretty straight path to go for that decent purpose. Way better than many alternatives found.

      @MR If you have too look at the cost the current 6 month's cycle can be frustrating. You never know what works when at the level you require.

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  10. You buy a car for $10,000. A month later the same car costs $9,500. Do you have grounds for complaint? No you do not.

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    1. Under those circumstances I agree with you.. However, that was not the circumstances.

      Upgrade eligibility to XE4 extended to D2010 or higher. Given the fact that upgrade eligibility to XE3 extended to D2009 or higher it stands to reason the upgrade eligibility to XE5 would extend to XE or higher. So, if you owned D2010 and wanted to wait for XE5 you would miss out on the upgrade eligibility.

      In reality as of right now, upgrade eligibility to XE5 extends to D2009 or higher.

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    2. :) That's not the problem. In this special case the argument is - reality did not match my expectations so reality is bad. Happy/Blessed those who have been offered the opportunity to upgrade from Delphi XXX.

      Don't confuse the 2 releases a year with spending money. Indeed it's not wise to update twice a year but not even EMB does expect from the single customer to spend money twice a year. They simply want to make their tools available at a low price via the SA. In practice the price is discounted and you can ask for discounts anyway.

      I think the problem of MR's lower turnover is not a result from Delphi. Maybe a result from the absence of guidance by a vendor. Such things I would not expect from EMB. That's not their job. Also a products relevant distance does not count anymore ... it's simply about a market. The later the day the louder the voices of those who well their fruits. If you listen to the Windows world or MS 'Market' the sunset does show up on the horizon but it will take another decade until the new sun rise will show a world with a shrunk number of PCs and if based on OS/X or UNIX as a rule.

      I personally would be happy with a nice consistent Delphi + C++ Builder offering called RAD Studio at a fair SA price. Maybe it's time to get rid of the good old rule. If time and money does count the 3rd influencing factor quality has to be put on hold and considered a lot less.

      A few bugs left hurt more these day than a few bucks spent.

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    3. It is completely analogous. They made a better offer after you had purchased. You seem to be suggesting that vendors should never be able to reduce their prices.

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  11. Upgraded to delphi 8 enterprise and it was very expensive and daylight robbery. Upgraded to xe2 (unused) and receive inupgrade requests every few months. Purchased radphp and it was half-baked and unusable. Borland/emb have cost me a fortune but I'm still using delphi 7 - stable software that delivered is promises. 3rd party stuff such as anydac, remobjects, teechart fill in the gaps that Borland should have done years ago.

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  12. How about my case?
    Upgraded to XE 3 when XE 4 was still beta (i.e. not for sale) and got XE 3 a few days AFTER XE 4 was released... Asked the distributor and got reply that no more so called 60 days SA (back in the Borland's era) and another upgrade costed too much. The result? RAD Studio/Delphi had been eating dust..

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